Curse

*lemming* · Feb 18, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I don't think it makes any sense that physicals had such a ridiculous damage buff that was multiplicative with other stacking buffs, while casters had nothing.

jazilla · Feb 18, 2011, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

So, Avatar of Dwayna was nerfed? Didn't know that.
Also, Intensity is a lolwut factor, Ele's need high damage not more AoE damage. Does the test kwere know this?! I tested Lightning Hammer with Intensity on 100 Armor dummy at 13 Lightning Magic, hits 66 on 100 and 33 on everything else. 33 damage... /sigh, I can't tell if this was a nerf or buff. It's still just as useless.

did you try phoenix with it? that is aoe around your character+damage to the target, + a second aoe at the target's location due to Intensity. I need to go see if it's viable.

On topic, idk what to think of AS now really. It seems like it is better all around than it was before. Cover hex with low cost + low recharge that you can instantly cast + you can't miss even when blind, wut?

This is the problem when a game stays stale for far too long. People get so used to doing what they have done for months on end that they forget how to make builds and be creative. I think this update also showed me how much the player base wants more skill changes on a regular basis even if just small changes. It keeps the game from getting static. Costumes are nice, but making builds is the engine that drives the game.

EDIT Tried Intensity + Phoenix and the Rodgort's Invocation and they are both pretty lackluster on the 100AL target. Guess the "Nuker" is still relegated to support. I am failing to see the point of the Intensity change now as Earth Magic doesn't support use of this skill at all. Obsidian Flame would be good but it isn't elemental damage. Air Magic sees the "best"(?) use of this but the damage isn't attractive enough to warrant a slot. Energy Blast is in the same boat as Obby Flame. Rodgort's Invocation, and Invoke Lightning seem the best application of the skill or maybe Chain Lightning, but I really disagree with the change seeing as it now limits usage to a handful of skills.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Feb 18, 2011, 08:05 PM // 20:05

i like this skill tbh, i liked the previous one too, and dont think people should say the word "overpowered" so much, but this makes you not miss and get rid of DP

see, melee + miss (blind or block) is bad, so this skill makes it up, and i think this gets rid of blocking and blind condition (hope thats the case) as it says you cannot miss, PLUS you get rid of some DP, which i hope stacks with normal DP reduction from enemy kills

so even though i liked the old one some more, i have nothing to complain here

and it has 5 energy cost and 5 sec recharge, so you can use it alot on monsters, just make sure you use it on monsters with block skills and at monsters in a group which has blinding skills

ps. just a small thing:
nerf = something is less useful (in general)
buff = something is more useful (also in general)
and this skill just has a different function, and since you can hit for sure, i doubt its either a buff or nerf, just a change

BlackSephir · Feb 18, 2011, 08:39 PM // 20:39

No, no way in hell.

It seems that the people who were left with GW1 have more balls than the rest of the whole ANet- "nerfing a pve-only skill?! JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS HUGE!"
I congratulate them for it and I wish that the rest of AN grows some balls too, because otherwise GW2 will be a goddamn casual feast without any challenge.

AmbientMelody · Feb 18, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I have another idea: remove the PvE skills altogether to promote bigger build diversity and reduce the reliance on meta-gaming in instances.

Alternatively, limit PvE skills to one slot per skillbar, and change the skill effect so they offer interesting niche choices, instead of warranting themselves a skill slot in every build, thanks to the powercreep they introduce.

/thread

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 18, 2011, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

No, no way in hell.

It seems that the people who were left with GW1 have more balls than the rest of the whole ANet- "nerfing a pve-only skill?! JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS HUGE!"
I congratulate them for it and I wish that the rest of AN grows some balls too, because otherwise GW2 will be a goddamn casual feast without any challenge.

No one is freaking out at this, sure, it's annoying now that the skill is useless, but all physicals can brush it off their loss.

Nerf shadowform, all hell will break lose "MY ECTOS ARE FOREVER OUT OF MY REACH!!! wat am i supposeto do? farm with [email protected] nevar!"

Hugh Manatee · Feb 18, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Though this tanked a few really cool assassin bars I had, and seeing pretty numbers was cool I don't really miss the old function much, I can just replace it with I am the Strongest or Dodge this.

The new function makes more sense thematically, scanning=never miss, and the DP removal without consumables... just wow. I wish I had this while vanquishing...

miriforst · Feb 18, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Only strange thing with it is that you are probably only going to enjoy the dp removal in other areas than dhuum chamber or in areas where you no longer gain experience (in that case lol at dying

) since dp is removed easy as hell in hard mode anyways (and if you accumulate dp THAT fast you do not deserve to succeed and even then theres a bigger problem with your partys dp rather than your own.

saint666 · Feb 18, 2011, 10:49 PM // 22:49

the curent AS is pretty decent, it allows melees into some elite missions that would of be otherwise undoable. The only suggestion I'd make to it make to it is replace the 5% dp removal with something else....I still need to get rid of 3 stacks of candy canes...it's kind of redundant with the abundance of dp removal items.

For 9...12 seconds your attacks cannot miss target foe. Your attacks against target foe do +5...15 damage.

This would give the skill more general application rather than just for very specific circumstances. It's a small additive buff that doesn't have the multiplicative effects of a % buff.

Ghull Ka · Feb 18, 2011, 10:53 PM // 22:53

/notsigned

I welcome the removal of a "required" PvE skill from the game.

Especially a boring, skillless "use it on everything you attack" PvE skill that does nothing more than add extra damage on top of your attacks.

A community that believes Melee/Physical attackers in Guild Wars have 7-slot skillbars and require some Asuran rep to work properly is a sick community. Anet is here with your medicine. You'll be better soon.

HigherMinion · Feb 18, 2011, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Personnaly I think all the PvE only skill changes were not thought/tested out. DP removal? really lol? Ok, so the garunteed hit is nice but u can do that with other skills. The changes to the pve only skills are pretty sad....mainly b/c they simply make 0 sense.

Agree with this. Lose DP? Isn't that more OP? You will never fail a vanquish or Hard Mode dungeon again if you take Ascan... Even a caster can use this for the DP removal. Ridiculous change, and obliviates the use of DP removal consumables.

By Ural's is just a pure griever skill.

Shriketalon · Feb 18, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Agree with this. Lose DP? Isn't that more OP? You will never fail a vanquish or Hard Mode dungeon again if you take Ascan... Even a caster can use this for the DP removal. Ridiculous change, and obliviates the use of DP removal consumables.

Perhaps, but Death Penalty is already a failed game mechanic. That's why they are making it obsolete in GW2.

The more steps taken to eliminate it, the better.

Rites · Feb 18, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

I congratulate ANET for forcing people to think instead of play with a mindless skill.
/notsigned

agreed..

now if they would just nerf a few more PvE skills (like pain inverter)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

I have another idea: remove the PvE skills altogether to promote bigger build diversity and reduce the reliance on meta-gaming in instances.

Alternatively, limit PvE skills to one slot per skillbar, and change the skill effect so they offer interesting niche choices, instead of warranting themselves a skill slot in every build, thanks to the powercreep they introduce.

/thread

yeah this could do too

Outerworld · Feb 18, 2011, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Perhaps, but Death Penalty is already a failed game mechanic. That's why they are making it obsolete in GW2.

The more steps taken to eliminate it, the better.

Gw and Gw2 are completly different games, trying to eliminate dp in this game is actually just making it easier.

Shriketalon · Feb 18, 2011, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Gw and Gw2 are completly different games, trying to eliminate dp in this game is actually just making it easier.

But it's already been eliminated, it just comes with a ludicrous logistical component now. If you have a loads of candy, Death Penalty doesn't exist. At all.

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

The game doesn't need DP to be challenging. Look at the War in Kryta. It provided more challenge by making the enemies actually interesting, forcing players to watch their targets and learn their behavior rather than simply going for the one with the Monk name, and ensuring that opponents used actual skill synergy rather than a random lump of abilities.

Forcing players to bring more candy doesn't make a better game. Making moment-to-moment combat more interesting and challenging does.

Rites · Feb 18, 2011, 11:52 PM // 23:52

i'm trying to understand how the DP was a failed game mechanic? lets see, you wipe, you get weaker, you keep wiping you have to start over (well in HM anyway). i actually like DP cuz it forces you to learn NOT to die. although some peeps have used the DP as an advantage in some builds, but still. what exactly was wrong with the mechanic behind DP?

/ninja'd by the poster above

and i dont think a game mechanic that forces you to learn how to play without dying is a failure, but i do agree that with the addition of candy to remove DP, they ruined the purpose of DP

MithranArkanere · Feb 18, 2011, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I for once welcome or new Asuran overlords.

There are plenty of ways to get more damage, but hitting while blind and regardless of any block? That's priceless!

I don't care about the DP removal, though. I found much more practical NOT TO DIE, than bringing resurrections and recovering DP after death.

Xenomortis · Feb 18, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

Death Penalty acts as a check. If you've cocked up, the game is doubting your ability to pass a challenge (or sequence of challenges; this is what PvE instances are made up of). It still lets you try, but under a more stringent test. It returns to the normal point after you've enjoyed some success. The more you fail, the harder the test - you need to be able to prove you really can do something under a harsh set of conditions to convince the game you should be allowed through. In Hard Mode, the game ultimately fails you if you die too much and kicks you from the instance.

It reinforces the notion that if you're dying a lot, then you're doing something very wrong and should try again.

Outerworld · Feb 18, 2011, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

But it's already been eliminated, it just comes with a ludicrous logistical component now. If you have a loads of candy, Death Penalty doesn't exist. At all.

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

The game doesn't need DP to be challenging. Look at the War in Kryta. It provided more challenge by making the enemies actually interesting, forcing players to watch their targets and learn their behavior rather than simply going for the one with the Monk name, and ensuring that opponents used actual skill synergy rather than a random lump of abilities.

Forcing players to bring more candy doesn't make a better game. Making moment-to-moment combat more interesting and challenging does.

Its not suppossed to make the game harder, rather punish you for mistakes. DP removal in any form other than losing it through killing should not exist since it bassically wipes the slate clean. Also players are hardly forced to bring candy canes...

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Feb 19, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

am i the only one not using DP removals? at least 1 of the few, i think

pve only skills are here for a reason, they make people happy

asura scan was something attackers like(d), and now that its made so that you dont increase dmg, people think its unfair
i never even used it, and yet i will try derv later to see what i can use

other pve only skills are different, like pi is mostly for HM, IF there are dmg dealers like eles

i think that it wasnt that bad before, but asura scan now is a lil better imo, as it let you hit things, and removes DP if target die

if they want to, they can make its recharge time longer, so that it wont be keep up, but what players want, is what anet does (lately)
instead of complaining about some dmg (i say some, as there's much more to deal dmg with), try some other +dmg skills

i never liked much nerfs they did, but this isnt one, it makes it easier to hit, so you cant miss.... you can dmg them more then when you were blinded(does it work with this condition?)/when they blocked or when hexed with blurred vision
you hit for 100% AND lose more DP than before, without cons. with every kill, just make sure you kill em fast enough, or hex em again

i dont say its overpowered, as people say that too soon imo, but its good, and it helps any attack build o_O not just the dmg dealers (and DP removal)

ahum, thats what i had to say about it